:h: Welcome
to Team Law’s Forum!

Please be aware that: The Way of Kings™ Forum is back online; however, they were not able to salvage their old database for that forum. Wherefore, all of the registrations and content that was on that forum is gone; which means that you will need to re-register on that forum to communicate with them and to receive their forum based services.

Though we usually hold Free Conference Calls every: Monday, Wednesday & Friday morning from:
8:00 – 9:00 AM (Mountain Time); excluding emergencies and national holidays; such as, this coming Friday (November 10, 2017), Veteran's Day; therefore, there will be no Conference Call on Friday; because, the office will be closed for the national holiday.

Join us on, and invite your friends to, our next Conference Call: Wednesday (November 8, 2017).

Call: (857) 232-0158; use the Conference Access Code: 110045.

Use this Forum to contact Team Law;
use this link for more: contact information.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:

After reading this announcement, you may remove it by clicking the “X” in the upper right corner of the announcement's green background.

Joint custody/never married

This forum is for topics not listed below.

Moderators: Tnias, Jus

Freedom4all
Beneficiary
Beneficiary
Posts: 2
Joined: Saturday December 8th, 2007 10:07 pm MST

Joint custody/never married

Postby Freedom4all » Sunday April 27th, 2008 2:20 am MDT

Hello! First, I want to say that I'm so excited about what I read on this website, and it has given me so much hope- thank you! Alright, here's a little history before I ask my Q: 4 years ago I committed a grievous sin and became pregnant outside of wedlock with a man whom I wasn't in a relationship with for very long. He was never married, nor I. He is 20 yrs my senior and an unbeliever. He has no other children. He did not want to marry me, yet he wanted rights to my daughter. When she was 2, I married a wonderful Christian man, who loves her as his own. The problem is, I had signed a joint custody agreement with bio. father out of fear that if I refused, I would be taken to court and from what I read, he would get 50% rights whether I let him or not. I have primary placement. Nothing is in writing about how often he sees her, but he sees her very frequently, often taking her overnight. My heart has grieved over what situation I put my daughter in. I have repented of my sins and made right with God. I've often struggled wondering if I am doing enough in my power to protect her. The reason we allow her to stay over with him so often is that if we denied him that, then he has threatened to take us to court to get her 50%, which we want to avoid of course. I believe that because he didn't marry me, I don't owe him anything, and that my husband should be the one who has rights. Could this ever be accomplished in court seeing as how I have already signed the custody papers? I am trying to follow the steps you provided by understanding who each of the parties involved are. So far, I know myself, but thats about it [ok]
Im praying the Lord gives us wisdom. I have been talking to my dear husband about becoming beneficiaries, and I know that would help too. Thank you in advance for your response.

User avatar
ZandarKoad
Beneficiary
Beneficiary
Posts: 35
Joined: Thursday August 23rd, 2007 7:40 pm MDT

Re: Joint custody/never married

Postby ZandarKoad » Sunday April 27th, 2008 6:24 am MDT

In general, such highly personal questions do indeed require team law beneficiary support. Perhaps if you could conceive of a question more generally applicable to other forum users it would not require such support. Also, rule number six of the Forum Rules indicates that highly personal questions should be sent via private message to Admin. So don't be offended or surprised if your post is deleted or heavily modified by the moderators. Having said all that, at least you've got proper punctuation and spelling which is more than can be said for most first time posts. It's good to see others applying God's Laws in their lives. Welcome to the forums and may God bless your search for wisdom! :)
I will know the Law.

User avatar
Citizensoldier
Beneficiary
Beneficiary
Posts: 106
Joined: Thursday July 28th, 2005 5:34 pm MDT

Re: Joint custody/never married

Postby Citizensoldier » Tuesday April 29th, 2008 11:13 am MDT

As Zandar mentioned, the personal nature of your inquiry would be better suited to a private PM to admin. However, we should all keep in mind that Teamlaw does not give advice.

Based on your choice of username, it would seem you wish freedom to all. If that is truly what you wish to support, you may want to consider the idea that to better secure and protect your own rights, you must be willing to also secure and protect the rights of others (including those of the biological father and of your daughter).

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thursday June 9th, 2005 12:16 pm MDT

Re: Joint custody/never married

Postby Admin » Tuesday April 29th, 2008 1:03 pm MDT

:h: Freedom4all:
First, let us say, we understand the concerns you expressed as well as those others have responded to your post with; and we hope you understand the intent of the responses on this topical thread are instructional. If the parties responding did not care they would not have taken time to respond to help you learn how to use our service.

Second, we hope you understand the posts already responding to in this topical thread regarding the Forum Rules. As those posts already noted, matters of such personal concern must be posted only to Admin via our private message service and not on the Open Forum. Normally, we would have deleted your post and sent you a private message informing you of the necessity of using the private message system to address such personal matters. Instructions for sending private messages can be found by reviewing the information found in the main menu (right side) FAQ link or by clicking this link: How do I send a private message?

Finally, as the others responding to your inquiry noted, the technical nature of your inquiry would require Team Law beneficiary support for us to respond directly to the subject matter of your inquiry and Team Law would only be able to help you educate yourself so that you could learn how to do what you intend to do if you can do it. We never do your work for you.

Therefore, if we were in a situation where we did not know what we needed to know to function properly at law, then we would get involved with Team Law; because it is the only resource of its kind, of which we are aware.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:
Team Law,

"In memory of our God, our faith, and freedom,
and of our spouses, our children, and our peace.
"


As with all Forum posts, comments made by Admin are:
copyrighted—all rights reserved; and, provided here for educational purposes only.

Freedom4all
Beneficiary
Beneficiary
Posts: 2
Joined: Saturday December 8th, 2007 10:07 pm MST

Re: Joint custody/never married

Postby Freedom4all » Tuesday April 29th, 2008 3:20 pm MDT

Thank you for the responses. My apologies for posting such a personal matter in the open forum rather than via private message. Just to clarify, I do believe that everyone should have their God-given rights protected. We also need to consider that only in the last 30 years has the definition of father been changing. It used to be that the father was determined by marriage to the mother. To quote wikipedia: "This method of the determination of fatherhood has persisted since Roman times in the famous sentence: Mater semper certa; pater est quem nuptiae demonstrant (Mother is always certain; the father is whom the marriage shows)." But the Uniform Parentage Act (1973) somewhat redefines "father".

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thursday June 9th, 2005 12:16 pm MDT

Re: Joint custody/never married

Postby Admin » Tuesday April 29th, 2008 8:17 pm MDT

:h: Freedom4all:
Though we appreciate your opinion on the definition of the word “father” and though we can acknowledge the fact that words and phrases can and do change meanings in accord with their usage, we are also of the opinion that attempting to saddle a word like “father” to an individual meaning or usage, especially when such a meaning is being derived from either statutory construction or from a definition from the user created Wikipedia website. Such sources are not authoritative as to the meaning of a word except for the statutory definition, which is only applicable to the statute that defines the term and is exclusive of any other application of such a definition. Team Law has repeatedly debunked incorrect usage of the “definitions” of words in other posts; where we have shown that dictionary definitions are not definitive, rather they are regurgitative (meaning that they are created by a lexicographer’s (dictionary author) sampling common usage, the main purpose being to show proper “diction”; thus, the dictionary’s purpose is to show proper spelling and usage as is common among the people. The definitions of words found in dictionary’s are therefore not definitive rather they simply express some of the ways the word may be used to the extent the lexicographer bothered to research or express.

Regarding the English language usage of the word “father”, research shows the word from at least the 12th Century until the present has consistently been used to mean
A man who has begotten a child.
And, more to the point, for at least that same period, the verb form of the word has consistently been used at least in the frame of:
The male act of generating a child within a female.
In your first post you acknowledged such an act taken outside of a marriage contract (outside of wedlock) constitutes a sin; however, in analyzing the laws related to that matter take back to Torah (which track’s back to the dawn of man’s time) such an act was considered a theft worthy of execution for the male and banishment (or execution) for the female if she was a willing participant. Certainly even then the equivalent definitions of the ancient language usage for the word “father” were accepted as quoted above.

But, let us not detract from our purpose in making this response to your most recent post. We made this response to point out that your limited reference to usage of the word “father” seems to be aimed at pigeonholing the word to a rather uncommon usage of the word to suit your needs in understanding the rights of man. We would not want to attempt such a usage in any court because the argument is so easily proven not only inapplicable but inaccurate. For example a simple search of Webster's current through the Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828) will show many common usages of the word “father”. Such a search can even be made on the internet. Here’s an example:
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828) wrote:[hr][/hr]Displaying 2 result(s) from the 1913 edition: [hr][/hr]Father (Page: 545)
Fa"ther (?), n. [OE. fader, AS. fæder; akin to OS. fadar, D. vader, OHG. fatar, G. vater, Icel. Fair Sw. & Dan. fader, OIr. athir, L. pater, Gr. , Skr. pitr, perh. fr. Skr. pā protect. ,. Cf. Papa, Paternal, Patriot, Potential, Pablum.]
  1. One who has begotten a child, whether son or daughter; a generator; a male parent.
      A wise son maketh a glad father. Prov. x. 1.
  2. A male ancestor more remote than a parent; a progenitor; especially, a first ancestor; a founder of a race or family; -- in the plural, fathers, ancestors.
      David slept with his fathers. 1 Kings ii. 10.
      Abraham, who is the father of us all. Rom. iv. 16. [/i]
  3. One who performs the offices of a parent by maintenance, affetionate care, counsel, or protection.
      I was a father to the poor. Job xxix. 16.
      He hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house. [i]Gen. xiv. 8.
  4. A respectful mode of address to an old man.
      And Joash the king og Israel came down unto him [Elisha], . . . and said, O my father, my father! 2 Kings xiii. 14.
  5. A senator of ancient Rome.
  6. A dignitary of the church, a superior of a convent, a confessor (called also father confessor), or a priest; also, the eldest member of a profession, or of a legislative assembly, etc.
      Bless you, good father friar ! Shak.
  7. One of the chief esslesiastical authorities of the first centuries after Christ; -- often spoken of collectively as the Fathers; as, the Latin, Greek, or apostolic Fathers.
  8. One who, or that which, gives origin; an originator; a producer, author, or contriver; the first to practice any art, profession, or occupation; a distinguished example or teacher.
      The father of all such as handle the harp and organ. Gen. iv. 21.
      Might be the father, Harry, to that thought. Shak.
      The father of good news. Shak.
  9. The Supreme Being and Creator; God; in theology, the first person in the Trinity.
Our Father, which art in heaven. Matt. vi. 9.
Now had the almighty Father from above . . . Bent down his eye. Milton.
Adoptive father, one who adopts the child of another, treating it as his own. -- Apostolic father, Conscript fathers, etc. See under Apostolic, Conscript, etc. -- Father in God, a title given to bishops. -- Father of lies, the Devil. -- Father of the bar, the oldest practitioner at the bar. -- Fathers of the city, the aldermen. -- Father of the Faithful. (a) Abraham. Rom. iv. Gal. iii. 6-9. (b) Mohammed, or one of the sultans, his successors. -- Father of the house, the member of a legislative body who has had the longest continuous service. -- Most Reverend Father in God, a title given to archbishops and metropolitans, as to the archbishops of Canterbury and York. -- Natural father, the father of an illegitimate child. -- Putative father, one who is presumed to be the father of an illegitimate child; the supposed father. -- Spiritual father. (a) A religious teacher or guide, esp. one instrumental in leading a soul to God. (b) (R. C. Ch.) A priest who hears confession in the sacrament of penance. -- The Holy Father (R. C. Ch.), the pope. [hr][/hr]Father (Page: 545)
Fa"ther (?), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Fathered (?); p. pr. & vb. n. Fathering.]
  1. To make one's self the father of; to beget.
      Cowards father cowards, and base things sire base. Shak.
  2. To take as one's own child; to adopt; hence, to assume as one's own work; to acknowledge one's self author of or responsible for (a statement, policy, etc.).
      Men of wit Often fathered what he writ. Swift.
  3. To provide with a father. [R.]
      Think you I am no stronger than my sex, Being so fathered and so husbanded ? Shak.
To father on ∨ upon, to ascribe to, or charge upon, as one's offspring or work; to put or lay upon as being responsible. Nothing can be so uncouth or extravagant, which may not be fathered on some fetch of wit, or some caprice of humor." Barrow. [546] [hr][/hr]Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1828 edition: [hr][/hr]F''ATHER, n. [L. pater. The primary sense is obvious.]
  1. He who begets a child; in L. genitor or generator.
    The father of a fool hath no joy. Prov. 17.
  2. The first ancestor; the progenitor of a race or family. Adam was the father of the human race. Abraham was the father of the Israelites.
  3. The appellation of an old man, and a term of respect.
    The king of Israel said to Elisha, my father shall I smite them? 2Kings 6.
    The servants of Naaman call him father. Elderly men are called fathers; as the fathers of a town or city. In the church, men venerable for age, learning and piety are called fathers, or reverend fathers.
  4. The grandfather or more remote ancestor. Nebuchadnezzar is called the father of Belshazzar, though he was his grandfather. Dan. 5.
We hope from this you can begin to see the folly of chasing after a single “definition” or application of a word, especially in law.
Where rights are concerned, the courts will go with the current common usage and regardless of a person’s recognition of parentage, or what they personally believe or intend for a child in the ‘Family Courts’, the judge is like a king. Whatever the judge decides is law and such matters as you are referring to are matters that in law are either resolved by the parties by private agreement or they are resolved in the Family Court System; and there your opinion will have “0” effect, as will all of the definitions anyone can come up with.

The bottom line: where family is concerned the only answer that will win favor anywhere (and especially with the King of Kings) is to lover one another. Children must be raised with love and they learn form example not from words. If you are not showing love and concern for the biological father and well as for your husband and for the child, the child will learn that example. The court will pick up on that and they will claim there interests are in the welfare of the child. That will come from your example.

We kind of got caught up in providing this response, which is beyond the scope of the Open Forum so we can go no further on this topic in this topical thread. Let this response serve you as an example of dictionary usage and definitions and you may want to reconsider the response you provided last.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:
Team Law,

"In memory of our God, our faith, and freedom,
and of our spouses, our children, and our peace.
"


As with all Forum posts, comments made by Admin are:
copyrighted—all rights reserved; and, provided here for educational purposes only.


Return to “Miscellaneous Topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests