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land patents—

The mystery of Land Patents unveiled.

Moderators: Tnias, Jus

Butch T
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land patents—

Postby Butch T » Tuesday March 18th, 2008 6:52 am MDT

Hi:
I am a paralegal and I am interested in acquiring a land patent for the property that my husband and I have in MS. I normally don't work in land patents - I work mainly in ligitation.

I was reviewing the four steps that you listed in Land 101 on how to secure your land patent and I am asking for a bit of clarification please on the following steps:

the 1st step - I understand that I need to have a Warrenty Deed which we do and I will be going by the circuit clerk's office to obtain a copy of the Warrenty Deed that is currently on file regarding my property. - this step I understand

the 2nd step - which you mentioned that I need to make sure about the description of the land and get it in land patent format - this step I understand.

But now on step 3 - You mentioned that I need to contact the BLM and ask them (in the land patent records office) for a certified copy of the land patent and a copy of the "Patent plat map". — To clarify this, do I send the information from step 1 & 2 to the BLM so that they can located their information as well as the Patent plat map? This step I am a bit confused on.

step 4 - then I am to send all of this information to you for completion of the Land Patent Acceptance Documents along with the payment of $200.00 - Am I correct on this?

My question is who sends it to the President for him to sign off on these documents?

Thanks in advance for your help in this.
Denise

Twodog
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Re: land patents

Postby Twodog » Tuesday March 18th, 2008 1:05 pm MDT

Hello Denise,
When I contacted the BLM last spring in regards to the Patent for my land the only information I gave them was the legal description of the land, which is the "Section, Township, Range, Meridian" format.

Using that information they located the Patent for my land and sent me a couple of certified copies. The Patent for my land was signed by President John Quincy Adams in 1825.

When I received the Land Patent Acceptance Documents from Team Law I filed the Land Patent sandwich with the County Recorder after signing, notarizing, etc.

I hope this helps a bit. Welcome to the forum, best wishes, and may God bless.

Louis.

Butch T
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Re: land patents

Postby Butch T » Tuesday March 18th, 2008 7:21 pm MDT

Thanks Twodog that helps to clear up my confusion, on Land Patents. Thanks again Denise!

EML
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Re: land patents—

Postby EML » Friday July 11th, 2008 6:29 pm MDT

I have researched, located and obtained ALL deeds from present back to "grant by President" and made "patent".
Question 1: Are certified copies from my local recorders office sufficient to make these documents "certified" correctly for securing a land patent?
Question 2: How do I find out how much it costs and who to contact to finalize this "land Patent" process?
Thank you in advance. eml

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Re: land patents—

Postby Twodog » Saturday July 12th, 2008 6:58 am MDT

EML,
Welcome and congratulations on completing your Title by locating and obtained all the deeds from present back to the grant by the President. I've run into a bit of a snag in completing my Title but I'm still chugging away at it.

Have you read the "Land 101" announcement at the top of the Land Patent forum? It contains a lot of good information and may answer the questions you asked.

Again, welcome to the forum, best wishes, and may God bless.
Louis.

EML
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Re: land patents—

Postby EML » Saturday July 12th, 2008 6:56 pm MDT

Hi Twodog. What kind of snag? I might have learned a trick or two in my research adventures. I managed to research 13 properties. [ok] eml

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ZandarKoad
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Re: land patents—

Postby ZandarKoad » Sunday July 13th, 2008 8:21 am MDT

Most of the 'snags' or problems we've run into while following the chain of the title to our land are nearly impossible for anyone to solve, unless they are right there with us at the Recorder's Office reading the same documents we are, and have access to those same recourses we do. We can't envision receiving help from anyone online, unless we take the time to get copies made of all pertinent documents which could possibly affect the title during the time period we are having trouble with, scan all those copies into the computer, email them to whomever we're seeking help from, then ask them to read through them all themselves. While this may be possible, it would be far more practical to do some local networking in search of someone who's done similar research. Usually the men and women working at the recorder's office have a degree of experience with those issues. Exhaust the resources readily available to you before you go searching far and wide for help. You may wish to contact one of your State's lawfully elected representatives (in our case, we were able to contact our State's original jurisdiction governor) and see if they are interested in donating some research time to secure another electoral vote; though they may also be swampped with their own tasks in re-seating our original jurisdiction government, so use them as a last resource.
I will know the Law.

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Re: land patents—

Postby Admin » Monday July 14th, 2008 8:52 am MDT

:h: EML:
Though the others responded they did not answer your questions so here you go:
  1. A Certified Copy from any official recording office will suffice in law as if it was an original record because it exemplifies the original record. The only exception to this is if the original record comes under challenge. We do not know what you mean by, “make these documents "certified" correctly”. A Certified Copy is certified. Original documents need no certification, other than a potential need for an official witness to a signature (such as a Notary’s).
  2. We believe your second question was answered by Twodog, when he referred you to the Land 101 article.

:h: Twodog:
We edited your response a bit to notice that the complete Title is the Land Patent plus all of the documents between it and your right to the land—your Deed. That set of documents is not an Abstract; rather, they are the complete Title. The Abstract is simply a list where the important data from each document in the complete Title is transcribed. Though the Abstract shows the chain of assignment from the land patent to the present, it is not the Title. If an Abstract is Certified by a Title company, then if there are any errors in the Abstract that are relied on and those errors are later challenged and proven the certifying party can be sued for any related loss. That is why the Title companies prefer to simply sell Title Insurance today; rather than risk a lawsuit.

:h: ZandarKoad:
Though we recognize the difficulties that can be experienced with some title searches, when records simply are not found, we have found the people at Clerk and Recorder’s Offices very helpful; both the offices own personnel and professionals that make their livings researching those records. Some of the most helpful people researching such records are the private researchers (often doing genealogical research). Their experience in locating records and leads to them can be most helpful. We do not know what we would have done without such parties when we first started our research into Land records.

So far as contacting the original jurisdiction State Governors for such a purpose, we would not do that; at least not in their official capacity. The Governor is simply not a person with that responsibility. The Governor’s only job is to administrate the Executive branch of government, so personal people matters and interests are out of their league.

If they are contacted simply as another person in the State that might know something about local records and may be willing to help in that way (as a neighbor) then OK. Certainly, they may appreciate knowing where they have electoral help, but offering that support in exchange for helping you is simply graft and it should neither be offered that way nor tolerated. Therefore, asking a governor to ‘donate research time to secure electoral votes’ is an invitation to commit a crime and should not be tolerated! Accordingly, we edited your post to change the word "swapped" to "swamped", because offering to swap their research on your behalf for your support of their election would be criminal and we expect you meant to use the word swamped.

On the other hand, the Corp. State has officials in their record keeping offices that are required to maintain such records and they are quite able to provide their assistance when called upon. Using them can be very effective.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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EML
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Re: land patents—

Postby EML » Sunday July 27th, 2008 9:17 pm MDT

Thank You all for your input. It is greatly appreciated. The people who work in the recorders office that I encountered are VERY knowledgable in how & where to find records. They also know several different angles to come from. Example; you can search by owners names ,grantor to grantee or visa versa, land descriptions to find names, also forwards and backwards. I found it quite effective if I lost the chain working backwards, I usually had enough information to start at the beginning of the chain & work forward until my 2 "chains" met somewhere in the middle. More than once I went page by page, book by book, following the STR's or the town name scanning only for the lots I needed. Time consuming, but more effective than trying to figure out why you can't find a record or where it might be.
I am not well trained in some of the terms used and sometimes confuse which term is apporiate where. I appreciate that you make your best attempt to answer my questions that are worded poorly and explain what the difference between how I worded it and what the term means. Thanks Again & Happy Hunting
EML

Marvdor1
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Re: land patents—

Postby Marvdor1 » Wednesday August 6th, 2008 7:54 pm MDT

The Land Patent information is very, very informative and enlightening. I appreciate the knowledge that so many of you have Blessed me with. I will continue to read and study the Law to gain more insight and understanding. Thanks again.


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